Denis Pennel has been an unwavering support for staffingsmericaatina since the inception of our platform. This Frenchman, who resides in Brussels, has been the Executive Director of the World Employment Confederation for almost 20 years, serving as the global voice of the workforce solutions sector. Denis is now a prominent figure in the global employment world; he has become an influencer, keynote speaker, and author of several books on new ways of working and desirable futures of work. For over 10 years, he has written a monthly column for staffingsmericasatina, and it is always a pleasure to have the opportunity to meet in person and discuss what we are passionate about.

What follows are excerpts from a conversation between Martin Padulla, Founder of staffingamericalatina, and Denis Pennel, Executive Director of WEC, with the highlights Denis shared in the context of The Work We Want Summit B20 Brazil, held in São Paulo.

The “The Work We Want” initiative

“The Work We Want initiative is a project we launched last year, and the idea is really to open up a conversation with WEC key stakeholders in order to have a conversation indeed on what is the work we want and what is the work we don’t want. As you know, the World Employment Corporation has always been a very strong promoter of decent work, and with all the different changes that are taking place in the world of work, there is a need to rethink the work we want, what would be the regulation on diverse forms of work, what would be the need for coming up with some new safety nets for workers in general, how much do we need to regulate the new digitalisation solutions that are disrupting the labour market. So the idea is really to kick off a campaign based on the strategic research that we conducted with FT Longitude, the research institute from the Financial Times. So we came up with some stats, facts and figures coming from the business leaders, and we interviewed more than 700 business leaders from all around the world to get their insights. And now we want, based on those results, to really have a discussion with our key stakeholders, policymakers, trade unions, think tanks, the academic world”.

The impact of AI on the future of private employment agencies

“Clearly, this is the topic of the moment. Everybody is talking on AI. A general remark first is that when there is a new technological development, what we have seen is the past in that the immediate impact of those technological disruption is overestimated, but the longer term impact is usually underestimated. And I think that’s exactly what will happen with artificial intelligence. Now, everybody is concerned, worried about the rise of AI. So, this is really the buzzword nowadays. But clearly, probably, this very hype focus will disappear in the future. But at the same time, the longer term impact of AI will be very significant for our industry. Actually, our industry is already using AI. Anything related to screening CVs, drafting job descriptions, spinning up the process between a matching and a supply of work, doing some skills assessment or skills mapping for user company, that’s something we’re already using. You know, chatbot also. So, this industry, as usual, is really in the lead for adopting new technology that can, you know, fasten, so increase the speed of the services we are delivering. So, clearly, we see AI as a way to increase the productivity of our industry. AI will focus on tasks that are routine, that are repetitive, that are not bringing much value to the services we offer. Allowing, as a consequence, to devote more time on services that really require the human touch. So, the solution there is really to make sure that, you know, there is very good work cooperation between AI and the staff working in the branches. AI is not going to replace people, but it’s going to allow people to focus more on the human dimension of the services we are delivering”.

The relevance of ILO Convention 181 (C181)

“We are truly convinced, as the World Employment Confederation, that these ILO instruments provide the right framework for regulating our industry. As WEC, we are calling for regulation to be adopted on our industry. We don’t believe in the Wild West, you know, and operating in an environment that not provide some guidance, some principles, some, in a way, restrictions to the way we offer services, is not possible. But, of course, those restrictions and limitations should serve a purpose, only one, and to protect the workers. And this is, for instance, why we are very much supportive of the non-fee charging provision, meaning that candidates, workers, should not be charging any fees for the services we deliver to them. All the services we provide should be paid by the user company, by the end user. So that’s a very important one. So we need regulation to protect the agency workers, but also to protect the end users, the client side, because by providing a well-organized, well-regulated framework for using flexible workforce solutions, this is also securing the access to talent for the business side. So this is also very important. So yes, definitely Convention 181 is a very good framework for regulating the industry. So we are very much supportive of that. Of course, at the European level, we have the EU Directive on Temporary Agency Work, which is also a very valuable regulatory framework for all EU member states to apply. But again, the position from our side is, yes, we are in favor of regulation, as long as it delivers an enabling environment for the sustainable growth of our industry. And sustainable is a very important word there. We don’t want to grow at the detriment or the expenses of the workers by exploiting the workers or creating social dumping. No, we want to create a framework that both people and companies can work together in a decent way”.

Contributions to modernize Latin America’s labor markets.

“About contributions of the industry to modernize Latin America’s labor market, well, I would say a big issue in Latin America is, of course, informality. And this is a major concern for governments, because the more informal workers, the less, you know, workers are being protected by social security, the less social charges as being received by the governments. So the less, you know, countries can develop strong social security schemes to protect the people. So this is really, really a key issue. Lower level of social charges being paid to the governments, lower level of taxes. And of course, you know, if you want to bring those informal workers into decent work, yeah, we really need to focus on that issue. And one part of the solution is indeed to promote cooperation between public and private employment services. The two employment services should not be seen as competitors, but as partners. There is so much work to be done that, you know, no one can claim to have the only solution to tackle the issues that labor markets are facing in Latin America. And of course, I already mentioned that this is all related also to regulation. We need to have a proper regulatory framework for the staffing industry to operate, being able to deliver different types of HR services, a variety of labor contractual arrangements, whether permanent, full-time, part-time, temporary, direct fixed-term contracts, apprenticeship contracts, and the diversity, the existence of diverse forms of work is key if we want to improve the functioning of the labor markets. Because on the one hand, this diversity will allow to meet the different expectations from the workers. And on the other hand, it will also allow companies to implement flexible workforce solutions as a way to adjust and to adapt to the economy and the economic cycles that have never been so changing and, you know, unpredictable. So clearly, our industry, the HR services industry, has a key role in tackling, you know, and modernizing labor markets in Latin America by, you know, providing and delivering decent work, providing diverse forms of work, allowing for a higher level of inclusion and diversity in the labor market, and also allowing companies to adjust to an economic environment that is becoming more and more uncertain, unpredictable, and complex”.

The main agenda items for sector development today

“Our focus at the World Employment Confederation is definitely on regulations. As you know, and especially when it comes to agency work and staffing, this industry is either highly regulated in many parts of the world, and especially in developed economies, but in some other parts of the world, there is a lack of proper regulation on our industry. We fight against unfair competitors and illegal players, because this is all about human trafficking, candidates being asked for fees for recruitment services, it’s all about informality. And clearly, this is something we want to fight against. So clearly, regulation remains an item very high on the agenda to ensure that the regulatory framework on the staffing industry is as supportive and enabling for the sustainable growth of our industry. The second one is all about the perception and the image of our industry, or even the social acceptance. This is still something also we are struggling with in some countries where the perception of the industry is not as good as it should be (because of the non formal players that are out of our ecosystem), meaning that the positive role we play in improving the labor market functioning and delivering better labor market outcomes for all are not yet fully perceived. And therefore, perception, image, acceptance of the industry is not as good as it should be. And that’s very interesting because this is related to the first item I mentioned, but regulation. What we are seeing is that in countries where the image of the industry is not as good as it should be, usually we face regulatory frameworks that are very restrictive, putting obstacles and barriers to the development of agency work. So this is clearly two issues that are interrelated, a bad regulation, a bad image. So it leads to bad regulation. And last but not least, I already mentioned it, digitalization. Of course, this is also a key component we are currently looking at because this has an impact not only on our industry, but on the overall world of work. So anything related to artificial intelligence, blockchain, platform work, new ways to assess skills, new ways for delivering matching between the supply and demand of work. This is all digital solutions and sometimes issues that we are also looking at”.

Main initiatives for 2025

A key priority for us is always the organization of our annual conference and the World Employment Conference will take place in Africa, Cape Town, in April, beginning of April 2025. It’s always a very important moment for members to come together to discuss, you know, key issues impacting the industry, to share best practices, but also to interact with some key stakeholders. And of course, the fact that we will be in Africa next year is also related to the fact that the B20 will be chaired by South Africa next year. And clearly we want to put Africa in the center of our map for next year. We want to increase the number of countries being represented from Africa, being a member of WEC. We want to make sure that, you know, our key messages are being conveyed to the B20 in South Africa. So really important. But on top of that, I would say we will also continue our Work We Want campaign because as I mentioned earlier, this is just the starting phase of the campaign. We released, you know, the main findings from osteologic research. We have started to communicate about those findings. We have started to ask stakeholders to provide insight. This is why also we presented, you know, and we addressed the Work We Want campaign during the WEC, the Work We Want Summit, which took place in Sao Paulo last week on Wednesday. So clearly we want to move forward with that one. The idea is to collect more feedback, more input from our key stakeholders, and based on those inputs, we are going to publish probably a white paper on what is the Work We Want. And on top of that, of course, we will continue to ensure that, you know, regulation on our industry is as supportive as possible for the sustainable growth of our industry, working on the image of the industry, expanding our community, bringing new members on board, bringing new partners, but also reaching out to some stakeholders that we are less, you know, directly engaged with as of today. So the idea is really to amplify the voice of the industry via the World Employable Confederation, by expanding our network, by enriching our community and having strong messages to make a real impact and a real difference into the world of work. Thank you.